Parenting advice powered by Lenny's podcast wisdom

Thirty Customers First

Marty Cagan

Inspired by on Lenny's Podcast

Before a PM could make any decisions, his boss made him visit 30 customers first - and that number might also apply to playdate observations.

Marty Cagan was an engineer who wanted to become a product manager. His mentor had one condition.

'I was not allowed to make any decisions for the team until after I visited 30 customers. 15 in the US, 15 in Europe.'

Marty thought he didn't need this. He was building products for developers. He was a developer. 'I know our customer.'

'And he said, Well, all I know for sure is that's never true.'

We make the same mistake with our kids. We think we know what they need because we were kids once. We were three once. We remember.

But do we? Have we sat and watched them? Really watched? Not to intervene, not to direct, but to observe? Thirty times?

Before you decide your child is 'shy' or 'aggressive' or 'not a good eater' - how many times have you just observed, without assumption, without judgment, without already knowing what you think you know?

1-2yr2-3yr3-4yr4-6yrlearningcommunicationmilestones

PM Theme: Customer research and empathy

Parenting Theme: Observing before judging

Quotes that inspired this tip
I was not allowed to make any decisions for the team until after I visited 30 customers. His number was 30. 15 in the US, 15 in Europe... I didn't think I needed to visit customers because I was a developer before and I was building products for developers. I'm like, 'Oh man, that's the one thing I've got is I know our customer.' And he said, 'Well, all I know for sure is that's never true.'Marty Cagan · 39:49
Tip illustration